Don’t panic. You can continue to call your perfume “Mademoiselle.”
Without exaggeration — or, only slight exaggeration — not a week goes by that I don’t learn something surprising.
Take today for example. I innocently asked a young woman: “Should I call you Madame or Mademoiselle?”
“Mademoiselle no longer exists, officially that is,” she replied. “Women are madame, men monsieur and that’s it.”
OK then. “No one told me, so I do apologize.”
For the moment at least, France has not invented the neutral/abstract Ms. and considering safeguarding their language is a top priority, I seriously doubt the French will appropriate Ms.
The woman was extremely sweet. She then went on to say that she was unmarried, mother of 12-year-old twin girls and was, she supposed, technically a mademoiselle because she had never been married, but she preferred madame.
Back in the day, when one said “Mademoiselle” everyone knew about whom we were speaking. (I thought the quote would continue our first impression conversation. . .)
I totally get it, but I still wanted to find out about the rationale behind my new information. Basically it was an anti-discrimination judgement. Apparently mademoiselle incites prejudice.
In 2012, mademoiselle disappeared from all government related documents. From what I can ascertain, it was a “recommendation” rather than a law. Then prime minister, François Fillon (who is now running for president), declared that all “formulaires” and correspondence should avoid the use of the “third choice,” explaining that no documents ever ask if a man is married and therefore women should be accorded the same consideration and respect.
During my research I discovered that mademoiselle, or its language equivalent, has had a similar fate in the following countries:
- Switzerland – 1973
- Quebec – 1976
- Luxembourg – 2012
- Belgium – 2015
Now I shall leave it to you to introduce this subject into a dinner table conversation. That would be soooo very French.
This seems to be a very progressive idea. When we helped our daughter buy a townhouse when she started grad school several years ago, she was horrified to be legally classified as a “spinster” on the deed. She was only 22. How antiquated is that?
I’m Polish and we got rid of this nonsense in 1945 (or shortly after). That really boils down to one’s marital status and, really, what does it have to do with anything? Nobody seems to care whether a man is married or not hence for men we only have Mr/Monsieur available.
I think this reflects changes in the society, i.e. women’s emancipation. In the past a woman’s status could have only been described only in relation a man; she could only be either someone’s daughter or wife. It brings to mind the old-fashioned way of, for example, addressing correspondence to, say, Mr and Mrs John Smith. The woman was so unimportant there was no reason to include her first name. I’m really glad this is finally changing.
Agreed that women should not be defined by their marital status, which seems a rather medieval way of thinking and almost always works against women. (Shocking, I know, the idea that officialdom in any configuration would discriminate. [insert snark indicator here]).
English, unfortunately, doesn’t seem to have options other than Mr. and Mrs., and sometimes Ms. as a substitute for the now-rejected Miss. Nor is American English all that fast to change. It took, literally, years for the august New York Times to be willing to use Ms., even though the term was by then in fairly general use.
As for Coco Mademoiselle, I wish Chanel would bring back No. 19.
This is news to me. Granted, I haven’t been to France since 2015, but when I was last there, I heard many a woman addressed as “Mademoiselle.” So is it the custom now for a waiter (or anyone, really) to address a child as “Madame”?
This is news to me. Granted, I haven’t been to France since 2015, but when I was last there, I heard many a woman addressed as “Mademoiselle.” So is it the custom now for a waiter (or anyone, really) to address a child as “Madame”?
I would love to be called Madame at my age of 63. Instead, in America, I get called Dear or Hun. Those make me feel older…madame would be elegant and cause me to walk a little higher. I do think it is sad to see mademoiselle disappear…such a sweet way to address a child or young lady.
I get called “dear” or “honey” a lot, too and it makes my toes curl every time. Usually, the person doesn’t seem to mean much by it, so I let it slide. But sometimes, there’s such an air of condescension that I’ll throw back with a “sweetie lambie pie”.
Very interesting. BTW Quebec is not a country, it’s a Province of Canada, (unless you’re a separatist – for them it’s a nation) but we’ll forgive you… LOL
Only half a year ago, in Strasbourg, I addressed a waitress of about 50 years as Madame and she replied “Je suis mademoiselle”.
Bravo on 2 accounts.
1. This relieves my stress when addressing a women in France. I’ve always said “Madam” as I think it’s the safer option, but I’ve harboured a fear of making a faux pas and insulting the woman whom I’ve addressed.
2. I don’t like a title that indicates marital status. I din’t change my surname when I was married so I’m still technically “Miss” and continue to use that title.
When I first lived in Paris in the 1970s, I understood that all women under about the age of 35 were addressed as Mademoiselle, unless one knew they were married. Over about 35, one was addressed as Madame, whether married or not, ‘Mademoiselle’ was too girly, apparently, for any mature woman. This was why it was so eccentric (or desperate) of the aging Coco Chanel to insist on being addressed ‘Mademoiselle’ until the end of her life. She apparently thought it sounded younger.
As for myself, I resent being addressed as Ms. Two reasons. First, I have a respect for the English language. Ms is a made-up sound, not an English word. Second, I respect cultural tradition. And throw in a third: I’m proud I’ve made it this far as a single woman and I like to advertise the fact. ‘Ms’ could be hiding a wife who is doing it all on her husband’s American Express card. Mademoiselles are doing it for themselves.
I remember the first part of elementary school in the northeastern US where female married teachers were called Mrs. (Lastname) and unmarried, Miss (Lastname). Mrs. was pronounced missez and Miss was pronounced miss.
I attended the second part of elementary school in the South. All female teachers, Mrs., Miss, and the newly used Ms., were referred to as Miz (Lastname), unless the person speaking had an exaggerated accent, where both were pronounced Mee-uz.
Then I grew up and moved South Texas where I worked with Mexican-American high school students. I was referred to as Meese (Miss) even though I was married. Of course the kids knew who was Mr, Mrs., Miss, and Ms. (LastName) but Meese was the respectful title, so that’s what we got!